Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn1

F, #14650, b. circa 1206, d. before 24 October 1253
Father*Llewelyn ap Iorwerth1 b. 1173, d. 11 Apr 1240
Mother*Princess Joan (of England)1 b. 1188, d. 3 Apr 1236
Relationship1st cousin 22 times removed of Robert Michael Damon
Reference91SQ-0V

Names and TItles

Married: Mrs. Quincy.1
Married: Mrs. Mar.1
     Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn, daughter of Llewelyn ap Iorwerth and Princess Joan (of England), was born circa 1206 of Caernarvonshire, Wales.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn was the daughter of Llewelyn ap Iorwerth and Princess Joan (of England).1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn married Earl Donald (of Mar) circa 1269 of Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn married Robert De Quincy, son of Saher IV De Quincy and Margaret De Harcourt.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn died before 24 October 1253 in Chester, Cheshire, England.1
     You have asked the $64,000 question. You have the two Helens wrong. The Helen that married [1] John le Scot and m[2] Robert de Quincey was the daughter of Joan. The other Helen is not a proven daughter of Llywelyn at all. You have assigned Gwladys to Joan instead of Tangwystl -- and I think that is fair. It is 50/50 at best that you are right -- and with Joan's lands going to Gwladys family and Gwladys dying at Windsor -- and the Mortimer genealogy going through Joan to William the Conqueror in a 14th century manuscript tradition, I would say the weight of the slim facts favor Joan over the Welsh mistress. Since you have to enter a mother, I would keep it that way. I will change my personal database from Tangwystl to Joan on the basis of this discussion. From: KHF333@aol.com.1 She became the mother of Anne De Quincy circa 1238.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Joane Quincy circa 1240.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Hawise De Quincy circa 1242.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Marjory (Margaret) (of Mar) circa 1270.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Earl Gratney (Gartnet) (of Mar) in 1272.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Duncan (of Mar) in 1274.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Alexander (of Mar) in 1276.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Isabel (?) circa 1278.1 Elen (Helen) Verch Llewelyn became the mother of Mary (of Mar) in 1280.1

Family 1

Robert De Quincy b. between 1186 and 1188?, d. August 1257
Children

Family 2

Earl Donald (of Mar) b. 1243, d. after 25 July 1297
Children

Family 3

Earl of Mar
Child
Last Edited4 Feb 2004

Citations

  1. [S227] Samuel H. Sloan, ROYALFAM.GED (461 Peachstone Terrace, San Rafael CA: n.pub.). There are some wild errors in the data.